Clocked car - please advise re info

[CaptainSlarty]

Hi guys
My 2010 Fiat Panda 1.1 8v seems to have had some serious 'clocking' done to alter the mileage prior to our recent purchase.
Here are the details, the car was purchased from a dealer with 32,000 Km on the clock. It would appear the actual reading is 120,000 Km !
Please can anyone advise if there is a way of telling WHEN the car was altered (Obviously we are in the process of contacting the previous owner etc) - but wondered if the date of adjustment was stored anywhere ?
We are seeking legal advice as well at the moment prior to contacting the dealer.
here are the details. - any more info needed I can get - any help you can give appreciated.

ECU ISO Code: 0D 07 C1 83 AD
10/01/2014 13:26:05
CONNECTED TO:
Fiat Panda '03 1.1 8V
Magneti Marelli IAW 4AF/4EF/59F/5AF EOBD Injection
--------------------------------------------------------------

ECU ISO code: 0D 07 C1 83 AD
FIAT drawing number: 51834074
Hardware number: IAW4AFHW407
Hardware version: 00
Software number: 20BBWR0
Software version: 0000
Homologation number: 4AFSF
ECU programming date: 02/12/2010

READING PARAMETERS:
Odometer: 120565 km
Odometer at last programming: 0 km
Number of rewrites: 1

____________________________________________________________________________________

ECU ISO Code: 32 83 13 02 1F
10/01/2014 13:21:23
CONNECTED TO:
Fiat Panda '03 1.1 8V
Instrument Panel Marelli (Base)
--------------------------------------------------------------

ECU ISO code: 32 83 13 02 1F
FIAT drawing number: 51871010
Hardware number:
Hardware version: 00
Software number: 04000005205
Software version: 0403
Homologation number: 000000
ECU programming date: 02/22/2010

READING PARAMETERS:
Odometer: 32227 km

Thanks guys,
Cap,

[s130]

Try looking at the Service Computer as well. You should be able to see the number of services/next coupon data and possibly some dates.

I would also suggest you get someone to witness you take the readings and then write them down/print them and get them counter signed

[CaptainSlarty]

Thanks for the reply S130.
I am not sure that the model has the service computer - but will check tomorrow. It is the 8v 1.1 eco. There is no service due light on the dash on this model. Only on the models with the rev counter and multifunction computer.

My local Fiat agent, (who is not a main dealer, he is a franchised dealer) has not got the equipment to read the ecu;s to the level of MES. I am awaiting details of where in the local area (Porto) I can take the car for diagnostic confirmation by Fiat as the legal people will not accept (understandably) MES data as proof of tampering / incorrect reading.
I dont speak Portuguese unfortunately so that makes things worse. I may contact Fiat UK and ask them what kind of dealer would have the appropriate equipment.
Nothing ever straight forward eh ?
Cap./

[alfa156sarajevo]

From my experience when I see "Number of rewrites: 1" immediately I suspect that someone has changed the odometer.
It has been done with good equipment via OBD connector. If someone would do it manually (taking off the dashboard) than number of rewrites would be 0.

To be 100% sure drive car for about 10km and than check values on dash and in engine ECU. If both values in dash and engine ECU have 10km more than previous reading that means car is calculating values as is should. Than somebody definitely changed the km values.

But if on dash you have 10km more and in engine ECU 100km more that means engine ECU is calculating differently km than dash.

Also contact official Alfa/ Fait dealer. Give them VIN number and ask when car was serviced in official service and how many km when it was in their garage. in general they give those information for free.

[s130]

Good point about checking "official" Fiat/Dealer records.

Here in the UK vehicle service and campaign (recall) data is generally maintained.

Also now in the UK our MOT testing (annual required government safety testing) also record the displayed mileage at the time of the test. In the UK we currently get the last 4 or 5 years vehicle mileage history at time of testing.

[alfa156sarajevo]

Good point about checking "official" Fiat/Dealer records.

Here in the UK vehicle service and campaign (recall) data is generally maintained.

Also now in the UK our MOT testing (annual required government safety testing) also record the displayed mileage at the time of the test. In the UK we currently get the last 4 or 5 years vehicle mileage history at time of testing.

I agree with you. He should check at MOT about miles.
Since this thing is normal in southeast European countries (non EU) it should be also possible in your country...

[CaptainSlarty]

Hi guys
The MOT is not due until March - so no previous records.
Fiat Portugal are not helpful and my Portuguese is not good, I am awaiting Fiat UK to contact me as they say their computer system is Europe wide.
I will let you know what happens.

[echappatte]

Ok, we wait your feedback

[CaptainSlarty]

Sorry for the delay guys,
Well, the car has gone, the garage took the car back and I got a full refund. I think they were 'probably aware' that it was clocked.....
Ah well.

Anyway, to get official fiat records we would have needed to know the garage where it was serviced as their service records are not on a central computer.
The diagnostics are now linked to a central point, but only recently. (thats the case in Portugal and also the UK I believe as I spoke to a main dealer there.)
It is a shame as it was a nice car, but, I dont like being cheated. The offending dealer was convinced of the clocking by the printout from MES. I didnt need fiat to confirm it. I think he wanted the car back and all traces lost as quickly as possible.....
We ended up with another Panda believe it or not, from a different source of course ! .... older (2004) but half the price, and the same miles (actually less than the genuine mileage of the other)

[echappatte]

Ok thank you for the update.

I think as you, they know it was clocked.

Hope you are happy with your new car